Someone sent met the following touching interview (see below). I love the way in which a Christian leader understands how suffering and darkness in our lives cannot be regarded in an almost contemptuous manner as stumbling blocks that our faith can overcome if it is only strong enough. Too often we hear the remark: “You are not healed because your faith is too small!”.
There is no "superman" faith in this interview. There is rather a mature, even inspired understanding that even though we live out of the power of the resurrection, the cross remains a vital part of our faith. The interview with Rick Warren reminds us that on our journey to eternity, suffering and evil are our constant companions. In fact, we often are faced with the the incomprehensible situation that death seems to be stronger than faith, that our prayers for healing of loved ones are not always answered with the answers that we expect.
I am once again touched by the illustration in this interview that life is more precious than material well-being and possessions. Especially when we discover like Warren that even the good things can be inherently threatening – how do we handle wealth and the notoriety that it brings us? Whilst most people would think wealth would solve all their problems, those who know God, realize that it is by far not the case. The Gospel of Luke is loaded with descriptions of what a burden material wealth can be. Possessions can rob us from the presence of God.
But I enjoy most Warren's remarks about the need to remain close to God. To love God is to experience the deep joy that we have been given a new identity ("I shall make you new!"). We are no longer prisoners of the past or of negative powers. But God also wishes to lift the burden of the good things in our life from our shoulders. God is interested in who we are. "Let me take this away, so that we can be together in complete fellowship with nothing to interfere." In Spirituality the image of the triune God is used to explain this: as God the Father, the Son and the Spirit commune, so we also need to be with God by way of a simple, regenerating relationship.
It is a golden thread in the Bible: we are formed in the image of God - we look like God! We need to become more and more like God as we travel our journey in salvation and suffering. It is in our very nature, especially in our modern society that stresses performance and status, to move away from living this truth. It is then that we chase "spiritual" works to show the greatness of our faith (cf. the other blogs here about John of the Cross).
I read the two passages in the Bible quoted by Warren in his interview and was struck by their beauty – even more so in the poetic translation of the Bible in Afrikaans. Psalm 72 celebrates the crowning of a king who reaches out to others in compassion and care. The king is God's image among his people in doing so. That is why the king is also described as God's son in the Psalms. In this Psalm key words are justice, peace, protection of the exploited, compassion, salvation, removal of violence (verse 14!). No other extraordinary interventions or miracles (verse 18). It is recreating God's true, ideal humanity. People must be empowered to live their calling. They must become children of God.
The just, caring, loving king represents God among the people, like we, as modern day children of God need to represent God among the peoples, the lonely, anxious, materialistic, alienated, unsaved, violent peoples of our time. We, too, have a royal duty. If we do not live this faith, if we do not reflect God’s face in this world – who will do it?
And 2 Corinthians 9 is an intriguing Pauline passage. It speaks about our lifestyle, about true gratitude, about giving generously, not grudgingly (verse 5), abundantly (verse 6) and it calls for sharing with joy (verse 7). Amidst all these activities God is in the centre of Paul’s thinking, as verse 8 shows. Our lifestyle is a reflection of who God is. God gives abundantly (in Afrikaans – God “scatters” grace). We need to become like God and then we shall be like God and do what God is doing. What is important, therefore, is that in our service to others, we are overflowing with many expressions of thanksgiving to God (verse 12). What matters, ultimately, is this life close to God. The more we do, the closer we need to remain with God. And being with God means thanking God, living in gratitude because of the new identity we receive in our relationship with God. In classical theology this was expressed with the phrase “coram Deo” – to be before God, in the presence of God, as the essence of faith.
To remain close to God determines the nature of our spiritual journey. Once again it can so easily become "my" journey. It is rather the journey of God with me. This is what Warren points to when he refers to his wife Kate who is drawn nearer to God and others in her traumatic illness. To be with the generous, loving, caring God whilst we travel along the edges of the abyss! That is what matters.
Today, without them knowing and hearing it and in a continent thousands of kilometres away, I pray for Warren and his wife Kate – that she may be healed, that they will experience the generosity of God more intensely than ever before and that day after day they may experience the overpowering presence of God. That I could share their witness about God's closeness in their journey and that I may pray thus is in itself a reason to celebrate my faith and find joy in the God who called me to believe. I can hold on to the image of a loving Father who overwhelms me with true peace. That is what life is all about. Everything else would be a mere bonus.
Subject: Interview with Rick Warren
This is an absolutely incredible interview with Rick Warren, author of "The Purpose Driven Life" and pastor of
People ask me, What is the purpose of life? My response is: In a nutshell, life is preparation for eternity. We are made to last forever, and God wants us to be with Him in Heaven. One day my heart is going to stop, and that will be the end of my body-- but not the end of me. I may live 60 to 100 years on earth, but I am going to spend trillions of years in eternity. This is the warm-up act - the dress rehearsal. God wants us to practice on earth what we will do forever in eternity. We were made by God and for God, and until you figure that out, life isn't going to make sense.
Life is a series of problems: Either you are in one now, you're just coming out of one, or you're getting ready to go into another one. The reason for this is that God is more interested in your character than your comfort. God is more interested in making your life holy than He is in making your life happy. We can be reasonably happy here on earth, but that's not the goal of life. The goal is to grow in character, in Christ-likeness.
This past year has been the greatest year of my life but also the toughest... with my wife, Kay, getting cancer. I used to think that life was hills and valleys - you go through a dark time, then you go to the mountaintop, back and forth. I don't believe that anymore. Rather than life being hills and valleys, I believe that it's kind of like two rails on a railroad track, and at all times you have something good and something bad in your life.
No matter how good things are in your life, there is always something bad that needs to be worked on.
And no matter how bad things are in your life, there is always something good you can thank God for. You can focus on your purposes, or you can focus on your problems. If you focus on your problems, you're going into self-centeredness, which is, "my problem, my issues, my pain." But one of the easiest ways to get rid of pain is to get your focus off yourself and onto God and others.
We discovered quickly that in spite of the prayers of hundreds of thousands of people, God was not going to heal Kay or make it easy for her. It has been very difficult for her, and yet God has strengthened her character, given her a ministry of helping other people, given her a testimony, Drawn her closer to Him and to people.
You have to learn to deal with both the good and the bad of life. Actually, sometimes learning to deal with the good is harder. For instance, this past year, all of a sudden, when the book sold 15 million copies it made me instantly very wealthy. It also brought a lot of notoriety that I had never had to deal with before. I don't think God gives you money or notoriety for your own ego or for you to live a life of ease.
So I began to ask God what He wanted me to do with this money, notoriety and influence. He gave me two different passages that helped me decide what to do... II Corinthians 9 and Psalm 72.
First, in spite of all the money coming in, we would not change our lifestyle one bit. We made no major purchases.
Second, about midway through last year, I stopped taking a salary from the church.
Third, we set up foundations to fund an initiative we call 'The Peace Plan' to plant churches, equip leaders, assist the poor, care for the sick, and educate the next generation.
Fourth, I added up all that the church had paid me in the 24 years since I started the church, and I gave it all back. It was liberating to be able to serve God for free. We need to ask ourselves: Am I going to live for possessions? Popularity? Am I going to be driven by pressures? Guilt? Bitterness? Materialism? Or am I going to be driven by God's purposes (for my life)? When I get up in the morning, I sit on the side of my bed and say, "God, if I don't get anything else done today, I want to know You more and love You better." God didn't put me on earth just to fulfill a to-do list. He's more interested in what I am than in what I do. That's why we're called human beings, not human doings.
Happy moments, PRAISE GOD. Difficult moments, SEEK GOD. Quiet moments, WORSHIP GOD. Painful moments, TRUST GOD. Every moment, THANK GOD
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